Sustainability in Sport Podcast - Wembley National Stadium

00:00:09:03 - 00:00:34:10

Simon Futcher

Good morning and welcome to the Veolia Sustainability in Sport podcast from Wembley Stadium. Joining me today is Sarah Smith, the Sustainability and soft services manager for the FA and Wembley Stadium. And today we're going to be looking solely at the initiatives that the sports and football stadiums are driving to create a far more sustainable future, along with that, also the targets that are challenging themselves on to move to a much more net zero position as we move through the coming years.

 

00:00:34:17 - 00:00:55:14

Simon Futcher

I'm Simon Futcher, I’m the sales director at Veolia and look forward to walking this podcast through and hopefully the insights and the content will be very enjoyable. So Sarah, thank you for joining us today. First question, an obvious question for me, is what's the driving purpose behind football's mission to be more sustainable? Is it moral? Is it obligation? What is it?

 

00:00:59:01 - 00:01:17:10

Sarah Smith

I think it's both. I think that football depends heavily on the environment. I think the people, the climate and climate change is a risk affecting us all, especially on today, the hottest day of the year. You know, and I think that also we must acknowledge that football has a part to play in this. We are a contributing factor.

 

00:01:17:16 - 00:01:33:08

Sarah Smith

So I think there's things to look at, I think, as the governing body of English football with currently 11 million active participants, we have a huge potential to drive environmental social change at both national and international levels.

 

00:01:33:10 - 00:01:48:20

Simon Futcher

Yeah, absolutely. I suppose one of the things for me has also been around how we, I suppose, the impact we can have on the fan base and what we need to do or what football clubs and stadiums can do to influence from that perspective, what you think the changes are that we need to now look for in terms of fan behavior.

 

00:01:48:21 - 00:01:57:14

Simon Futcher

What do we need to start to provide to that fan base to hopefully help reeducate them or educate them further when it comes to the facets and subjects like sustainability?

 

00:01:58:17 - 00:02:26:19

Sarah Smith

Well, I think that we hold a unique position on the influence of football throughout England and beyond. You know, our players, our clubs and our organisations are respected around the world and we've got an opportunity to educate and influence behaviour on a large scale. One of the things that we did here at Wembley for our fans was to change the flags that we use that we give out on event date to fully recyclable and reusable materials.

 

00:02:26:19 - 00:02:48:21

Sarah Smith

So the poll is made out of cardboard and the flag was material. So our teams can recycle and reuse those after the event, if they get left here. We also engage our fans and attendees on some of our initiatives, progress through our website and other key touch points. And it's important to remember that our guests are here to have a great time.

 

00:02:48:21 - 00:03:09:00

Sarah Smith

They're here to support their clubs. And I think that we can enhance that experience for them. I think we can be mobilising our powerful figureheads to influence behaviour. And I think that consumers are also pushing us to do better and to do more.

 

00:03:09:21 - 00:03:29:04

Simon Futcher

On that point you make around the consumers, and I think it's a fantastic point, fans come to the stadium to obviously support their football clubs. Do you see a consistency from football clubs in terms of the message that they're delivering to fans or and or is it around the brands that are represented, stadiums like Wembley as an example that probably need to do more as part of that.

 

00:03:29:13 - 00:03:54:17

Sarah Smith

I think we can all do more and I think we need to collaborate on a more sustainable level in more detail. And I think there needs to be more discussion prior to all of these events that take place. We've put in place in our venue hire agreement that, you know, our sustainability policy and some sustainability initiatives. So everybody knows that they must adhere to those when they're coming in to the stadium or hiring the stadium.

 

00:03:55:20 - 00:04:05:06

Sarah Smith

We've also seen some artists driving us forward and so I think it's going in the right direction, but I think it needs to pick up some momentum.

 

00:04:05:15 - 00:04:23:13

Simon Futcher

I think that's a really interesting point because I think people have started to recognise now that the stadiums are absolutely the core purpose for the stadiums is mainly for the sporting events. Of course they are. But we've started to see now how they've become far more cross-functional in terms of concerts and boxing matches, etc., that are obviously held here.

 

00:04:23:20 - 00:04:38:11

Simon Futcher

Do you see a change in the way that those processes are either benefiting and driving, I suppose conversations on sustainability or are they playing catch up in terms of the work that's already been done, particularly in the football arena?

 

00:04:39:02 - 00:05:01:08

Sarah Smith

Well, I think for Wembley, being a multi-use stadium is more of a challenge to perhaps some of the other clubs because, you know, we have different people coming to every event, whereas some of the the clubs would have have the same fans go back to the same seats so they can educate on an ongoing basis. The difference here is we don't have that.

 

00:05:01:08 - 00:05:04:10

Sarah Smith

So we're starting afresh with each, each, each event.

 

00:05:04:23 - 00:05:22:01

Simon Futcher

I suppose you've got a different genre of people that are coming to, to music concerts and to some of the boxing matches. Have you seen things like the recycling percentages as an example change dramatically between a concert and a boxing match versus what you get? I suppose, week to week or match to match from a football perspective.

 

00:05:22:01 - 00:05:45:08

Sarah Smith

Definitely, so the demographic for, you know, one concert would be very different from another. And if, you know, looking at the past Ed Sheeran concerts we just had, you know, you can see the guests look actively looking for bins to place their waste in but some other demographics they don't do that. It does vary from event to event.

 

00:05:45:08 - 00:05:46:23

Sarah Smith

I won't name any names, but.

 

00:05:47:15 - 00:05:52:03

Simon Futcher

Well, I'm coming to the Coldplay event. So hopefully if I see people doing the wrong thing, I'll certainly point them in the right direction.

 

00:05:52:03 - 00:06:00:24

Sarah Smith

Well that’s going to be very sustainable event. We've got some nice initiatives going for that, working with Coldplay. So yeah, yeah. Looking forward it.

 

00:06:01:04 - 00:06:17:24

Simon Futcher

And it's an interesting point. Did you find, you know, again, we're not going to name names, but do you find that you've got from band to band or from artists to artist, do you find that approach to things like sustainability at the stadium is very different? Or do you find that they have some kind of consistency?

 

00:06:17:24 - 00:06:20:04

Sarah Smith

No, they're all very different.

 

00:06:20:04 - 00:06:25:23

Simon Futcher

And is that everything from in terms of demands at the stadium to travel to and from the stadium?

 

00:06:26:07 - 00:06:47:20

Sarah Smith

Well Wembley’s a public transport venue. So the best way to get here is by public transport. You know between 75% to 80% of guests come by public transport. And then we have a coach network as well. So no, it's fairly standard from that point of view. If we've got football teams coming down from the north, that would be Coach Transport in.

 

00:06:48:07 - 00:07:11:07

Simon Futcher

Carbon is a huge part of what's on most people's agenda now in terms of variations of scope and decarbonising their organisation. Since you touched on something around public transport there where, yes, it's probably far easier, particularly the City of London. I think that some of these venues and some of the stadiums that we see are far more accessible from a public transport perspective.

 

00:07:12:07 - 00:07:28:03

Simon Futcher

And I do think that from a sport and from an environment perspective, these two things are intrinsically linked. What action is, I suppose, the sport or the FA and Wembley as a stadium looking at when it comes to that subject, that is how do we decarbonise, how do we achieve a more net zero position.

 

00:07:28:07 - 00:07:57:21

Sarah Smith

Yeah, you know, and I'm sure that it makes me think of the pictures of the flooded football pitches that we've seen over the past few years. So regarding the biodiversity, you know, we've also got St George's Park as the home of the England teams. So we have a biodiversity action plan there, which helps to ensure the natural environment which we operate is improving the wildlife, increasing the health of the ecosystem.

 

00:07:58:05 - 00:08:16:14

Sarah Smith

You know, some of the things, the initiatives that we've done there, we've installed Wildflower Meadows, planted bulbs, we've relaxed our mowing regimes as well to help wildlife. We're planning to develop a new area of woodland and also a new wildlife pond.

 

00:08:16:14 - 00:08:40:09

Simon Futcher

I mean, they're all phenomenal initiatives. And I think, you know, the biodiversity angle, particularly now and I think this is where I think a lot of people are seeing that intrinsic link between sport and the environment, particularly in the biodiversity programs and initiatives that you've highlighted there. Do you find that local communities or even from a broadcasting perspective, there's a challenge with broadcasters coming onto site, bringing big generators their own power supplies.

 

00:08:40:09 - 00:08:45:19

Simon Futcher

Is that a challenge to, I suppose, to approach that conversation in a slightly different way with broadcasters now?

 

00:08:46:00 - 00:09:15:09

Sarah Smith

I think broadcasters have changed in recent years following the pandemic. I think we've seen, you know, remote press conferences taking place. And I think broadcasters have become very aware of their own footprint. They are now pushing us to do better, but we're working with them to reduce their overall footprint. And it's an ongoing conversation with all of the broadcasters that are coming into us, but it's high on their priority list now, which is really good.

 

00:09:15:09 - 00:09:15:15

Simon Futcher

Great.

 

00:09:15:23 - 00:09:34:08

Simon Futcher

And I think, you know, historically you probably go back a number of years and it certainly probably wasn't on everyone's agenda. And I think that's the great thing now around where this sustainability in sport message is starting to really carry far more weight. I mean, if we look at the net zero games that have taken place on things like Sky Sports and again, I think I'll go back to the comment around…

 

00:09:34:11 - 00:09:53:01

Simon Futcher

Yes, it's probably easier to achieve that position when you have a lot of accessible public transport that allows fans to get to games. But I think the driving force behind that is that there is a desire and an appetite to see some real improvements. Do you think it's well publicised in terms of, you know, the biodiversity initiatives that you talked about a second ago?

 

00:09:53:01 - 00:10:05:21

Simon Futcher

Do you think that in sport at this moment in time, there is enough in terms of that publication of what we're doing? What's happening is that education probably reaching far enough across the fan base to really drive that level of education.

 

00:10:06:15 - 00:10:26:11

Sarah Smith

I think that the conversation around sustainability has increased definitely over the past couple of years. And I think now more than ever it needs to be talked about, more and more action needs to be taken. And I think the role of broadcasters is absolutely key. And I think we can all do more and all do more together.

 

00:10:26:11 - 00:10:51:09

Sarah Smith

I think it was great. You mentioned the net zero event and which had great coverage. And I think that there will be, you know, other opportunities to do more around that. And I think you'll find more clubs trying to do the same thing. I think, you know, if you look at the international governing bodies of football, FIFA and UEFA, they're both really engaged with sustainability.

 

00:10:51:23 - 00:11:22:02

Sarah Smith

And so with the FA, you know, we are the governing body of English football and we have enormous influence. We are going to launch our longer term sustainability strategy in the coming weeks. That's called Playing for the Future, and we hope that that is going to inspire and encourage others, organisations, clubs to do the same. We all need to be very aware of our own footprint and what we are going to do and plan to reduce that.

 

00:11:23:13 - 00:11:49:06

Sarah Smith

We've had a sustainability events policy at Wembley since 2018 and we've been certified to the International Management Standard ISO 20121 since 2019. So we constantly monitor and manage those impacts. You know, we're very aware of what our footprint is and we are taking steps to reduce them.

 

00:11:49:16 - 00:12:11:04

Simon Futcher

We touched on the broadcasters earlier. Do the broadcasters have a greater responsibility to help with publicising that message, do you think? Because, I mean, there's a lot of great communication that may be coming out of the stadiums or coming out, as you say, the FA and the projects around biodiversity should should the broadcasters pick up more of this and assist in getting that message out?

 

00:12:11:22 - 00:12:27:00

Sarah Smith

I think they can. I think there needs to be the balance between, you know, entertaining the people and then enhancing that experience by, you know, educating them around sustainability initiatives.

 

00:12:27:13 - 00:12:46:02

Simon Futcher

If you think outside of Wembley for a second and looking at the, I suppose the role that the FA have working with, with the clubs across the UK particularly, what can those clubs do? So you touched on, you know, some of the initiatives up in the north of England as well. What can those clubs do to try to encourage their fans to be more carbon friendly?

 

00:12:46:02 - 00:13:04:08

Simon Futcher

Is it just simply around educating them on what carbon friendly modes of transport look like? And are other things that the clubs could be doing or should be doing to try to look at how they impact their own carbon footprint or I suppose the footprint that the fans are delivering and bringing to the grounds.

 

00:13:04:08 - 00:13:46:23

Sarah Smith

I think fan travel is a fundamental contribution to the emissions, so engaging with them on less impactful methods of transport is really important. Birmingham County FA launched a lift share scheme which gained 900 members within the first month, so there are definitely initiatives out there. The FA is an umbrella member of BASIS. The British Association for Sustainable Sport, and as part of that BASIS offers all county FA’s access to sustainability initiatives and best practice guidance.

 

00:13:47:10 - 00:13:56:03

Sarah Smith

So that's a really nice way that clubs, county FA’s and clubs, associated clubs can get information on how to make changes.

 

00:13:56:19 - 00:14:24:15

Simon Futcher

I'm aware of the charter that the FA put together that went out to the football clubs in terms of, I suppose, your expectation as the governing body on what you expect to see from clubs in terms of I suppose minimum levels of engagement in these areas. So, what the bare minimum needs to look like, do you find that that level of engagement from the football clubs, you know, right the way through the divisions, right the way across the country has been strong or is it still in some areas, a bit of a battle.

 

00:14:24:23 - 00:14:50:12

Sarah Smith

Around the country. You've got people and clubs who are really engaged in sustainability initiatives and others less so. And I think it's the responsibility of us all to just help increase that momentum. You know, I also think we need to bear in mind that some of these clubs are small clubs with, you know, mums and dads, volunteering their time.

 

00:14:51:03 - 00:15:02:00

Sarah Smith

Yeah. You know, so it's ways that we need to find ways that we can help those clubs with initiatives to help them drive down their footprint.

 

00:15:02:13 - 00:15:36:01

Simon Futcher

And we touched at the very beginning around, you know, obligation. Is it moral? Is there a genuine intent across, you know, I suppose the sporting arena and particularly the football arena that you're very close to at this moment in time, do you feel that there is still a very fine balance between sustainability and cost? You know, are you still seeing that certain organisations or certain clubs are going to be still very driven about what the cost to be more sustainable looks like, particularly if it's more than what they're paying at the moment to be partially sustainable.

 

00:15:36:06 - 00:15:57:14

Sarah Smith

I think there'll always be a balance with cost. I think we know we've all got budgets that we've got to stick to and they are limited, I think, up and down the country. If you’re looking at the grassroots football, you know, you've got the bigger clubs that are really some of the bigger clubs are trying to really drive force and sustainability initiatives and help drive other clubs to do the same.

 

00:15:57:14 - 00:16:14:16

Sarah Smith

And then there are the smaller clubs perhaps with the mums and dads, you know, volunteering their time where maybe sustainability isn't as high on their agenda. But what we're going to try and do is encourage those clubs with some initiatives and some guidance to help reduce footprint and drive down costs for them as well.

 

00:16:15:03 - 00:16:43:01

Simon Futcher

And if we're seeing costs rise everywhere at this moment in time, cost of living, fuel prices, energy prices, as you say, cost of living. So I think it's driving people to probably consider their own sustainable position maybe because of cost, which is not necessarily a bad lever in that respect. In terms of listeners from today and listening to some of the content and some of the initiatives that are taking place across the FA and the certain clubs and stadiums.

 

00:16:43:01 - 00:16:59:01

Simon Futcher

As it stands at the moment, if there is one sort of clear message or one sort of action that you would want to leave listeners with in terms of what to do next, is there anything particularly that you think is sort of leading that priority list?

 

00:16:59:01 - 00:17:20:15

Sarah Smith

I think you need to be aware of your footprint and where you're where your impacts are. For us here at Wembley, it's energy. So if you think about the increase in energy costs over the, you know, the past few months, it's significant. And I think that is going to increase. So I think, you know, for us here, it's about ways we can reduce our energy, our electricity.

 

00:17:21:08 - 00:17:42:18

Sarah Smith

And I think that we will be helping others to do the same. You know, whether that's solar panels, you know, finding ways to generate your own power and also, you know, maybe thinking about water reduction, too. So I think for us here at Wembley, that's what we are really focusing on to help us drive down our costs.

 

00:17:42:18 - 00:18:07:00

Sarah Smith

But there are lots of other ways and lots of other initiatives that the FA are working on that we are hoping to share with all of the county FA’s. You know, we're here to help guide and support county FA’s and we will provide that support and guidance to them. And I think by sharing the information that we are doing so through these podcasts such as these, if we can help others, we're really very happy to do so.

 

00:18:07:14 - 00:18:19:07

Sarah Smith

And also we're very happy to listen to others too. So we like to learn from other organisations what they're doing. And I think it's an ongoing conversation about, you know, what can be achieved and how we can reduce the footprint.

 

00:18:19:15 - 00:18:38:07

Simon Futcher

And I think it's a great comment as part of closing today's session. I think are people very much aware of their own carbon footprint? I think it's very easy to look at big organisations, big stadiums, big companies out there that are currently trying to understand where they sit from a carbon footprint perspective.

 

00:18:38:07 - 00:18:59:04

Simon Futcher

But I think you're right. I think in terms of an individual supporter on a day to day basis, if everybody out there started to be more cognizant of what their own footprint is and how they can impact it, and affect it, I think that it will certainly drive a far more sustainable environment at a football stadium. And I think something else you just said there as well for me was around, you know, green energies and alternative fuels.

 

00:18:59:04 - 00:19:17:20

Simon Futcher

I think that's a huge, huge element that, you know, we're now seeing a lot more organisations trying to identify whether, you know, solar is an opportunity. Where do they go from a biofuels perspective? How do they look at reducing the amount of water usage they have at this moment in time? Energy is clearly going to be on everyone's agenda for some time to come.

 

00:19:18:03 - 00:19:40:23

Simon Futcher

So I think for me, it's a great takeaway. People starting to look at their own carbon footprints, challenging the organisations that they're working with in looking for ways to become more sustainable and to drive further initiatives. And I think, you know, the other takeaway for me will be there are some great initiatives out there we should be looking to share best practice and get those ideas across a wider spectrum.

 

00:19:40:23 - 00:19:58:01

Simon Futcher

So I think really, really insightful today, Sarah, so thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much for taking part. I hope everybody listening has found that content really useful and really insightful and we look forward to the next podcast, which will be out very soon.