In conversation with Dulux Decorator Centre

In conversation with Dulux Decorator Centre

Dulux Decorator Centre's sustainability ambitions have combined with Veolia's Ecological Transformation purpose to deliver an innovative paint can recycling scheme. Tune in to this episode of our podcast to find out more.

 

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Partnerships between like-minded organisations are crucial in the fight against climate change.

That's why we partnered with Dulux Decorator Centre to deliver a paint can recycling scheme, which makes it easy for tradespeople to dispose of paint cans in an environmentally responsible manner. The scheme has now received over one million paint cans, which can then be recycled into new materials.

This initiative is helping to reduce the number of paint cans that end up in landfill, and enables the painting and decorating industry to reduce its environmental impact. With the construction of our built environment producing the largest waste stream by tonnage, this is helping to make a difference in a key part of the construction sector.

Duncan Lochhead, Commercial Sustainability Manager at Dulux Decorator Centre, joined Veolia UK's Daniel Arnold to talk about the impact of the scheme, and how it aligns with both Dulux Decorator Centre and Veolia's sustainability aims.

In conversation with Dulux Decorator Centre - Transcription

00:00:36:02 - 00:00:37:04
Hi, I'm Daniel Arnold.

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And today I'm joined by Duncan Lochhead
from Dulux Decorator Centre

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to talk to us about the company's
sustainability ambitions,

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our partnership and the success
of our paint can recycling scheme.

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This recently passed the 1 million
cans recycled milestone.

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The key part of Ecological Transformation,
as the name suggests, is transforming

00:00:53:22 - 00:00:56:17
our patterns of consumption
and closing the loop on resources

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by partnering with the like minded
companies like Dulux Decorator Centre.

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We're doing just that by recycling used
paint cans.

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This initiative recently reached
the milestone of 1 million cans recycled,

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saving significant amounts of carbon
emissions and preserving virgin resources.

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Listen to my conversation with Duncan to find
out more about the value of this partnership.

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Hi Duncan, hi Dan,
thanks very much

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Good to good to be with you today.

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Perhaps it's a good idea

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for me to introduce our business
and what we do

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and I'm actually part of the
Dulux Decorator Centre

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which is a specific bit of 
Dulux AkzoNobel

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I guess quite a lot of people
will not be that familiar

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with the name
AkzoNobel, 

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AkzoNobel is a big global manufacturer
of paints and coatings

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in the UK you might know brands well,
hopefully, definitely Dulux,

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but there are other brands

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in the portfolio,
things like Hammerite, Cuprinol

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Polycell and AkzoNobel

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make paint and distribute to consumers.

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So for example,
you know, that's us going down to

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B&Q, Homebase and buying
our Dulux for home.

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But then we also supply the trade market.

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So that's, decorators and painting
contractors of roughly equal sizes

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those two markets
and through to the trade up

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the biggest distribution
point is that you know

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is the Dulux Decorator Centre unsurprisingly
and there are around about 245

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stores in our network across the country.

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Yeah.

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Well we collect from 137 of those
on a weekly basis.

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Yeah.

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So we do a little bit of, what's the right word

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bringing it all together,

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so you consolidate the

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empty tins the empty metal
and plastic tins

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at your decorating centres. We
then on a national fleet, collect them

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on a weekly, fortnightly, monthly basis
depending on obviously the requirement,

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the frequency, consolidate them,
then at our regional

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transfer stations for them
being sent for onward recycling.

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So depending on whether they're metal
or plastic determines

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then the final recycling,
facility we then send that to.

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And I'm just thinking about it from
this kind of back end I suppose, isn't it.

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But the front end
from our customers perspective and

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actually if we go one

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step back, if you think about
the big two waste challenges

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we have in our market,
one is empty cans and the other is

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cans that have some paint left in

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half filled cans hiding in people's

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garages and cupboards under the stairs.

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But from an empty cans perspective,

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this is a big you know, it's
a massive challenge for us as a market.

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It's something the scary stat
is that something like

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100 million empty paint cans

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go to waste in the UK every year.

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That's not just us. That's that's.

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The market. That's the whole market.

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Yeah.

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So finding,

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that's
why this service is, is so important,

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finding a way to make it easy
for customers

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to return cans and feel kind of reassured

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that they are going to be recycled
and not end up in landfill.

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It's what
we're doing here, what we're trying to do

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and what we've been
trying to do for the last

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over ten years.

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It's I guess
it's been a bit of a struggle for us.

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You know,
the adoption of the can recycling,

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which is a free of charge service that
we offer to customers, has been slower.

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The good news is it picked up at a faster
rate.

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Last year it increased at a faster rate
than than previous years.

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So, you know, hopefully
the message is finally sinking in.

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But that's what we're trying to do.

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We're trying to make it really easy
for customers to to either

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return empty cans to the stores

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or we make it really easy

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because half of what we what we supply,
we deliver to sites,

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to construction sites or sites
that people are working on.

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And then we'll pick up whilst we deliver

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pick up empty cans from from sites.

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All our customers have to do
is bag them up.

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Make them available to you.

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Do a little bit of paperwork,
and return them.

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Yeah. So that's what we're trying to do.

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Yeah. Excellent.

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And obviously today we're celebrating
quite the landmark with the service

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passing at the end of last year,
a million cans that have been recycled

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through the scheme.

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And it just goes to show really
obviously

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how both the Dulux, AkzoNobel
and the Veolia goals

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really align with this

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to obviously drive what we what we like to
consider is Ecological Transformation

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and yeah it's a roaring success

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really obviously as you rightly say, it's
picking up, it's getting more engagement

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and hopefully as a result,
we can reach more clients, more people.

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And obviously then direct more material down
the scheme for future

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recycling really.

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The 1 million cans was
a great milestone and

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actually it's quite nice because

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we keep a track of all of the cans
that return that are returned

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we were able to to know
that the one millionth

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can came back to

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Dulux Decorator Centre at Newtown Road

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in Birmingham in July last year

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and we know who the customer was

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who returned it.

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But yeah, so it was a great landmark
and that's great.

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But there are still a lot of

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a lot of empty cans
that we're not capturing through

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the empty can recycling scheme that we

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you know, that we are desperately
trying to change habits.

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It's quite it's kind of habitual industry
decorators.

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The age profile of decorators is average
age is around about 52.

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So it's quite an old

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profession
which is an issue because you know,

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they're going to retire and yeah, people
are going to run out of decorators but

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the older ones

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are ingrained in what they do
and their habits.

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Can be set in their ways a little bit
perhaps.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And getting them to think differently

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about their empty cans
rather than just slinging in the

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skip on the site,

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but actually have them returned
so we can ensure

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that they are recycled properly
with your help and, you know,

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that's that's really hard,
but that's what we're aiming for.

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Excellent.

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As well as recycling empty paint tins

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then Duncan, what are you doing to assist
with your clients that are looking to

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sustainably dispose of their partially
or full paint tins?

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Yeah.

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That second big waste challenge
that we have

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as an industry, by the way,
but it's a big one as well, 

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should I ask you a question, put you on the spot
here actually because, you can try.

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You might remember this, you might not.

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But what is the average

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number of half filled paint tins
that people have in their garage, in some

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of their sheds and cubpoards
under the stairs

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I wouldn't even like to guess
because I know I will be so far out.

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I'm sure you must have heard this before.

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I probably have, because
go on have a guess

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eight.

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Eight, eight is a good guess,
but very wrong.

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Oh, right. The right answer

00:09:02:02 - 00:09:06:03
having done research as an 
industry on this

00:09:06:03 - 00:09:09:17
is 17. Wow.
If you think about all those

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little tester pots and everything, it
all mounts up, doesn't it?

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And so yeah,
if they kind of rest in people's

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sheds and garages gathering dust, then
eventually they have to be dealt with.

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And, and actually
we've worked out that if you

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if you add it all up together,

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it's, it's a waste paint lake of 40

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to 50 million litres of paint
a year that goes to waste.

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And the sad thing about that is that

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lots of that waste paint

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is in reasonably good condition and can be
and can be used.

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And, and so yeah, over 10% of what we

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as an organisation make and sell

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never makes it onto the wall, just,

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just goes straight into, into waste,
which is criminal.

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All that resource
used to make it the energy and

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raw materials.

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So yeah, so

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there are a number of things
that we need to address that issue too.

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The good news is

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some things are happening
and a good one to mention is

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an organisation

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we've sponsored now for 30 years
they're called

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Community Repaint and they,

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they have a network of 60
or 70 projects around the country.

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They take in old waste paint and

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kind of sort through it
and then provide it, sell it on

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at a very low cost to people in need
or to community projects.

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And that's great.

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So we're kind of diverting,
you know, good paint,

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usable paint away from the waste stream
completely.

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Yeah. Ready for reuse,
which is obviously a great way in which

00:11:03:21 - 00:11:06:08
to utilise that material. Yeah. Perfect.

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But that is only scratching the surface
and there's loads more that

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we need to do
to deal with that great big issue

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you know, including,

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you know, contractors
painting contractors who have great

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big store cupboard, store
areas, store rooms filled with,

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old scary,

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you know, messy paint

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that's built up over ten, 20 years.

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And, you know, although we
have completely nailed it yet.

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We are, of course, working on something
with you

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to try and find a way to provide a service
to customers, to deal with that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, we have obviously
the infrastructure to be able to to treat

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bulk liquid paint as long as it obviously
conforms to the certain criteria.

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Obviously with water based, solvent based.

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So there's a number of different options

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we can provide through our UK
infrastructure.

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And obviously,
as you rightly say, we're trying a service

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now and in a particular region
to see how we're getting on, we've had

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relatively good engagement
towards the back end of last year

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and hopefully that will
then build this year.

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Fingers crossed.

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How does the scheme fit into Dulux's
wider sustainability strategy?

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Well, the the strategy, particular
for Dulux Decorator Centre

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centres around
three, three key pillars really.

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So it's

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sustainable products

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and packaging is part of that,
sustainable services

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and sustainability
within our own organisation.

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The kind of operational sustainability
I suppose.

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So just to, to kind of bring that to life.

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So the types of things that we are

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that we are looking at and working on.

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So if we think about sustainable products,
there's all sorts of,

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you know, technological developments.

00:13:02:01 - 00:13:05:12
But probably the cool
big thing at the moment

00:13:05:12 - 00:13:10:03
is, is a stream of activity

00:13:10:04 - 00:13:12:22
that's centred on very,

00:13:14:09 - 00:13:18:01
very low carbon technology.

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So these are paints that are 99.9%

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solvent free, so solvent
just to kind of paint the picture

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a bit, solvents have been used
by the paint industry for

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hundreds of years.

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They help make paint flow out
and give you a nice smooth finish.

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For those of us who are older like me,

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you remember old,

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very high
solvent paints, very smelly, very potent

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using solvents like

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white spirit, which tend to come
from the petrochemical industry.

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So they're very high carbon

00:13:54:10 - 00:13:56:03
so that's bad.

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So now we have

00:14:00:11 - 00:14:04:02
new resin technology,
which helps make more

00:14:04:02 - 00:14:09:05
and more of the paints that we manufacture
and sell be entirely water based,

00:14:09:05 - 00:14:12:22
which obviously completely changes
the carbon profile.

00:14:13:19 - 00:14:16:04
So that's a
really good big change

00:14:16:04 - 00:14:17:05
at the moment

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just from a sustainable services
perspective obviously all that we do

00:14:23:06 - 00:14:27:01
helping customers deal with
waste is a big factor.

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But there are also things
that we're doing to help

00:14:30:02 - 00:14:35:09
customers model

00:14:35:09 - 00:14:39:14
the paints they use
and the carbon impact over short,

00:14:39:14 - 00:14:44:12
medium and long term period
and the lifecycle modelling tools.

00:14:45:15 - 00:14:48:08
And key to that is carbon data.

00:14:48:08 - 00:14:51:11
So carbon data is a key bit
that we've been working on too.

00:14:52:23 - 00:14:55:08
And then when I think about

00:14:55:19 - 00:15:00:13
sustainability within our organisation
as a whole, I mean there's loads of things

00:15:00:14 - 00:15:03:19
that you're probably doing too

00:15:04:01 - 00:15:07:06
just as we are, theres

00:15:07:06 - 00:15:10:11
you know, the trialing
of electric vehicles for deliveries.

00:15:10:11 - 00:15:14:02
There's sustainability
training for all of our people

00:15:14:02 - 00:15:17:23
to make sure that it's
kind of part of business as usual.

00:15:18:20 - 00:15:21:09
That's how we,

00:15:21:15 - 00:15:24:08
how we deal with the carbon in buildings,

00:15:24:08 - 00:15:27:22
the operational carbon
and the carbon embedded in our buildings

00:15:28:10 - 00:15:33:12
and loads of different streams of activity
on that front.

00:15:33:12 - 00:15:35:00
Does that answer your question? Yeah.

00:15:35:00 - 00:15:39:13
really goes to show that the
aims and ambitions

00:15:39:13 - 00:15:42:02
of Dulux really dovetail
with Veolia's own.

00:15:42:02 - 00:15:44:07
And I think that's what makes such
a great partnership really.

00:15:45:11 - 00:15:47:09
How crucial are partnerships such as the one

00:15:47:09 - 00:15:50:21
between Dulux and Veolia in delivering
these sustainable initiatives?

00:15:51:13 - 00:15:54:12
Well,
they are vital, absolutely vital for us.

00:15:54:14 - 00:15:57:18
When we map

00:15:59:03 - 00:16:00:16
you know, our

00:16:01:07 - 00:16:02:09
our footprint.

00:16:02:09 - 00:16:06:23
As an organisation,
when we look upstream

00:16:07:05 - 00:16:10:15
and when we look downstream, it's
the same for most organisations, isn't it?

00:16:10:15 - 00:16:11:22
That's where the big impacts are

00:16:11:22 - 00:16:15:22
You know, operational,
you know, within our own operations

00:16:15:23 - 00:16:17:15
is only between 2 and 5%.

00:16:17:15 - 00:16:22:13
So all the stuff upstream
and all our suppliers, all the,

00:16:23:11 - 00:16:27:04
you know, help and more materials
and innovation

00:16:27:05 - 00:16:31:09
that we get from suppliers upstream
and equally downstream.

00:16:31:09 - 00:16:36:11
You know, thinking about waste and Veolia,

00:16:36:11 - 00:16:39:20
we can't hit our overall ambition.

00:16:40:08 - 00:16:42:19
By the way, our big ambition is to halve

00:16:43:19 - 00:16:46:17
carbon emissions by 2030

00:16:46:21 - 00:16:51:11
across the full value chain upstream,
downstream and in the middle.

00:16:53:02 - 00:16:55:00
So we can't achieve that

00:16:55:00 - 00:16:58:20
without the help, assistance
and collaboration

00:16:58:20 - 00:17:04:06
of all the people that we work with
across across the whole value chain

00:17:05:02 - 00:17:08:17
yeah, so when I think about
when I think about Veolia,

00:17:09:11 - 00:17:12:16
you know, you have for us,
you have a really crucial role

00:17:13:10 - 00:17:15:20
in helping us,

00:17:16:13 - 00:17:19:05
you know, radically
improve the waste profile

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:22:22
of our industry as a whole.

00:17:22:22 - 00:17:26:04
So we've really, you know,
we really need your help.

00:17:26:21 - 00:17:30:22
You know, we really need you to be able
to provide great, great service,

00:17:30:22 - 00:17:34:04
but also be doing all the things
behind the scene to make that

00:17:34:16 - 00:17:37:18
that service,
you know, lower and lower carbon

00:17:38:06 - 00:17:40:21
as we progress
through the years towards 2030.

00:17:41:03 - 00:17:42:06
Yeah. Well is it true partnership

00:17:42:06 - 00:17:45:04
really because obviously
at the same time we need your assistance

00:17:45:04 - 00:17:48:20
when it comes to perhaps collecting
from your clients directly in some cases

00:17:49:02 - 00:17:50:06
with providing us obviously with
the right

00:17:50:06 - 00:17:52:20
information to allow us to be able
to undertake that successfully.

00:17:53:09 - 00:17:56:17
So yeah,
it really is a hand-in-glove approach

00:17:56:18 - 00:18:00:00
with these sorts of initiatives
and to make it a success certainly.

00:18:00:11 - 00:18:03:23
You know, we're not experts
at dealing with waste.

00:18:03:23 - 00:18:05:14
You're experts at dealing with waste.

00:18:05:14 - 00:18:09:01
So, it's expertise we need, isn't it?

00:18:09:05 - 00:18:11:02
Absolutely.

00:18:11:02 - 00:18:13:22
A lot of brands now are coming under fire
for so-called greenwashing.

00:18:14:14 - 00:18:17:14
How do you ensure that your sustainability
projects aren't mistaken

00:18:17:15 - 00:18:18:13
for greenwashing?

00:18:18:13 - 00:18:20:22
And are taken seriously as
industry leading initiatives.

00:18:21:21 - 00:18:22:07
Yeah.

00:18:22:07 - 00:18:26:05
Greenwashing
is a term that our legal department

00:18:26:05 - 00:18:30:24
love to talk about on a frequent basis
with us and

00:18:30:24 - 00:18:33:00
it's good and right to

00:18:35:09 - 00:18:38:00
to think about
and to address the greenwashing issue.

00:18:38:07 - 00:18:43:15
I suppose my initial response is data.

00:18:44:04 - 00:18:47:00
It's it's data and science

00:18:48:13 - 00:18:51:10
that gives us,
you know, robust platforms

00:18:51:10 - 00:18:52:08
so, for example,

00:18:52:08 - 00:18:54:22
you know, we we've signed up to

00:18:56:07 - 00:18:58:18
science based targets as an organisation

00:18:58:23 - 00:19:02:10
and that means that our top line

00:19:02:10 - 00:19:08:00
goals are properly robust
and have been tested in effect

00:19:08:15 - 00:19:12:01
through a third party.

00:19:12:01 - 00:19:14:23
But every element of the business that

00:19:16:06 - 00:19:19:12
on which we make a claim, it's a bit
like we were talking earlier on

00:19:19:12 - 00:19:24:06
about the empty can recycling,
being able to track all of the movements

00:19:24:07 - 00:19:27:15
and to track what happens to the cans,
you know, with your help

00:19:28:07 - 00:19:31:06
and you know,
that means that we can do things

00:19:31:06 - 00:19:35:08
like make a nice story about the one
millionth can that was recycled.

00:19:35:18 - 00:19:38:20
So we need the data
and we need the science behind it.

00:19:40:08 - 00:19:42:01
But we do need to

00:19:42:01 - 00:19:48:06
we have to have a balance on that because,
there's a new term, right?

00:19:48:07 - 00:19:50:23
There's a new term. Go on. Greenhushing.

00:19:51:12 - 00:19:53:21
Greenhushing, I can't say I have 
but it sounds interesting.

00:19:53:21 - 00:19:54:05
Okay.

00:19:54:05 - 00:19:56:16
Greenhushing
can mean a number of different things, but

00:19:57:04 - 00:19:59:19
it can mean that,

00:19:59:19 - 00:20:02:10
you know, companies for fear of being

00:20:02:10 - 00:20:06:17
accused of greenwashing,
say nothing, you know, they hide.

00:20:06:17 - 00:20:10:08
And the
they put very little in their annual reports

00:20:10:21 - 00:20:12:22
because there's a tension, isn't there?

00:20:13:02 - 00:20:17:15
A tension between between what you claim
and what you can justify?

00:20:17:17 - 00:20:19:02
Of course. Yeah.

00:20:19:18 - 00:20:21:19
So that is bad.

00:20:21:19 - 00:20:24:12
So we have to try and hit the sweet spot
in the middle

00:20:26:00 - 00:20:29:17
and, and not be too scared of
doing any communication

00:20:29:17 - 00:20:34:15
with a, you know, for our customers
or for the market as a whole.

00:20:34:15 - 00:20:35:23
So yeah, greenwashing

00:20:35:23 - 00:20:40:00
we need to we need to address it
and we need to have robust data,

00:20:40:09 - 00:20:43:05
but we need to watch out
for not saying anything.

00:20:43:06 - 00:20:44:15
Yeah, I think obviously what you say

00:20:44:15 - 00:20:47:02
with data is bang on really
I mean it's tangible isn't it.

00:20:47:11 - 00:20:50:23
We self deliver the service for you, as a result

00:20:50:23 - 00:20:53:02
obviously we can demonstrate
what's collected from when

00:20:53:05 - 00:20:56:04
and obviously your robust system itself
can can track where

00:20:56:12 - 00:20:59:23
the origin of the cans
come from from a client piece.

00:21:00:10 - 00:21:01:07
So absolutely.

00:21:01:07 - 00:21:03:22
I mean, it's
all there, what can't talk can't lie.

00:21:03:22 - 00:21:06:06
We've taken to the downstream facilities
where they actually do

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:08:01
the recycling as well on occasion.

00:21:08:01 - 00:21:12:23
So it's all robustly tested from a
duty of care piece and as a result

00:21:13:11 - 00:21:17:12
what we're talking about, it's important
to talk about it and what we say we do.

00:21:17:12 - 00:21:18:17
We are actually doing in practise.

00:21:19:21 - 00:21:20:10
And just

00:21:20:10 - 00:21:23:14
the other thing the data enables,
which is nice

00:21:24:01 - 00:21:27:07
and it enables us to provide

00:21:27:19 - 00:21:30:13
an annual certificate
to our customers to say

00:21:31:00 - 00:21:36:07
this is exactly how many empty cans you've
returned to us and that have been recycled

00:21:36:10 - 00:21:38:12
and that's good for them because they can,

00:21:38:12 - 00:21:41:00
you know, potentially use that as kind of,

00:21:42:05 - 00:21:44:05
you know, good

00:21:44:08 - 00:21:47:13
case stories
for them with their with their customers.

00:21:48:04 - 00:21:51:03
Or it can be, crikey,
we need to do better.

00:21:51:05 - 00:21:53:20
And then they talk to their staff
about how to improve.

00:21:54:02 - 00:21:57:01
It acts a a trigger to change that behaviour
and obviously then drive, drive

00:21:57:01 - 00:21:57:17
better practise.

00:21:57:17 - 00:22:00:07
So yeah, well that brings us
to the end of our discussion today.

00:22:00:07 - 00:22:02:02
So thank you, Duncan.

00:22:02:02 - 00:22:03:12
If anyone wants to learn anything

00:22:03:12 - 00:22:06:23
more about the scheme
that we've run together in partnership

00:22:07:13 - 00:22:11:15
you can visit the Dulux Decorator Centre
website or Veolia's own UK website.

00:22:12:13 - 00:22:13:15
Thank you for your time today Duncan.

00:22:13:15 - 00:22:15:04
It's been it's been great chatting.

00:22:15:04 - 00:22:16:06
Thank you Dan. Yeah.

00:22:16:06 - 00:22:19:11
Thanks for inviting me Veolia.

00:22:19:11 - 00:22:21:13
Our relationship is really important
to us.

00:22:21:22 - 00:22:23:11
onwards and upwards. Absolutely.

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