How does the sports industry score for sustainability?
To make sport truly sustainable, there needs to be a range of initiatives in place, from encouraging fans to go greener to improving biodiversity at stadiums.
![](/sites/g/files/dvc1681/files/styles/crop_freeform/public/image/2022/12/LinkedIn%20Lives%20podcast%20banners%20%281%29.jpg?itok=VN3Zbk9d)
In this Sustainability in Sport podcast Simon Futcher, Commercial Business Development Director at Veolia UK, is joined by Antony Isherwood, the Community Director at Birmingham City Football Community Trust, to take a deep dive into the initiatives that sports stadiums community trusts are implementing to drive sustainability credentials.
Sustainability in Sport - Transcription
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:02:15
Good afternoon and welcome to all of our listeners
00:00:02:15 - 00:00:07:05
for the second episode of the Veolia Sustainability in Sport Podcast.
00:00:07:21 - 00:00:10:22
I'm joined today by Antony Isherwood, the community director
00:00:10:23 - 00:00:13:04
at Birmingham City Football Community Trust.
00:00:14:02 - 00:00:17:09
And as per our first episode, we will be taking a slightly deeper
00:00:17:09 - 00:00:21:05
dive into the initiatives that the sport football stadiums, community
00:00:21:06 - 00:00:24:18
trust's are implementing to drive their sustainability credentials.
00:00:26:04 - 00:00:27:13
Antony, firstly, welcome.
00:00:27:13 - 00:00:28:23
Thank you very much for being with us.
00:00:28:23 - 00:00:31:00
Thanks for having me. Pleasure.
00:00:31:03 - 00:00:35:02
First question what's the biggest challenges clubs and trusts are facing
00:00:35:02 - 00:00:37:21
when trying to drive community initiatives at this moment in time?
00:00:38:22 - 00:00:42:01
I think the biggest challenge we face as a football clubs
00:00:42:03 - 00:00:45:15
community trust within the city of Birmingham is very much we're out there,
00:00:45:15 - 00:00:49:08
we're trying to send a message surrounding long term environmental sustainability.
00:00:49:14 - 00:00:53:05
And when you mention those two words, the first thing our communities are
00:00:53:05 - 00:00:55:02
concerned about is cost.
00:00:55:02 - 00:00:57:20
That is the big problem we have.
00:00:59:01 - 00:01:01:12
So we're very much trying at the moment
00:01:01:12 - 00:01:06:05
to support those local communities, very much in educating them that it's not
00:01:06:05 - 00:01:09:19
you know, it's not about spending lots of money.
00:01:09:24 - 00:01:14:03
There's a small things that we can do to support long term development.
00:01:14:10 - 00:01:15:11
And just linked to that.
00:01:15:11 - 00:01:18:11
Do you find that sustainability
00:01:18:18 - 00:01:21:02
versus profit type conversation
00:01:22:02 - 00:01:24:16
always seems to come up first, or is it a case of, you know,
00:01:24:18 - 00:01:27:04
let's talk about the initiatives and then understand the cost thereafter?
00:01:27:20 - 00:01:30:07
Yeah, I just think it's an immediate barrier that comes out.
00:01:30:07 - 00:01:32:21
I think at the moment, environmental sustainability is all over
00:01:32:22 - 00:01:35:01
the news, it's all over government agenda as well.
00:01:35:01 - 00:01:38:21
I think our communities are picking up snippets here and there, and the snippets
00:01:38:22 - 00:01:41:21
they're picking up when they're listening to the news is very much around
00:01:42:09 - 00:01:44:16
big costs, big, big, big barriers.
00:01:45:01 - 00:01:49:00
And what we're trying to say very much to our communities is
00:01:49:16 - 00:01:53:15
we can take small steps and there's no cost to these steps.
00:01:53:16 - 00:01:56:15
It's about ourselves being more understanding, more aware,
00:01:56:23 - 00:02:01:02
and actually educating ourselves and our communities more.
00:02:01:13 - 00:02:02:18
Absolutely.
00:02:03:01 - 00:02:04:23
And I suppose from a footballing perspective,
00:02:06:03 - 00:02:07:03
how can football
00:02:07:03 - 00:02:11:05
benefit, you know, the local communities benefit and really drive home
00:02:11:05 - 00:02:14:03
a more sustainable message when it comes to, you know, changing behaviour.
00:02:14:14 - 00:02:15:24
So this is where
00:02:15:24 - 00:02:17:24
all football clubs are blessed because we've got platforms,
00:02:18:02 - 00:02:21:05
we've got social media reach, we've got platforms across
00:02:21:05 - 00:02:24:08
all social media websites, and we attract engagement.
00:02:24:19 - 00:02:27:08
What we've got to do is use that positive use,
00:02:27:08 - 00:02:29:08
the fact that people want to see what's going on on our website.
00:02:29:08 - 00:02:32:05
They want to see what is the latest news at Birmingham City.
00:02:32:15 - 00:02:36:14
And when we captured them engaging in that first in that first step
00:02:36:14 - 00:02:40:12
of that first moment, very much, then start talking to them about
00:02:40:21 - 00:02:44:14
where we are and where we can get to, you know, on real cool
00:02:44:14 - 00:02:47:22
things that are going to have an impact on all of us in some way or form.
00:02:48:07 - 00:02:51:24
From a generation perspective, I suppose in terms of the digital aspect
00:02:51:24 - 00:02:53:24
and that social media platform that you referenced there
00:02:55:00 - 00:02:57:10
as the football club made a really conscious effort to
00:02:57:10 - 00:03:00:22
then start to change the nature and the style of its communication.
00:03:00:22 - 00:03:03:00
It starts to go out to its fanbase that to to
00:03:03:08 - 00:03:06:15
I suppose demonstrate that there are more sustainable ways to communicate.
00:03:06:22 - 00:03:09:07
Yeah, absolutely. Again, small steps.
00:03:09:07 - 00:03:11:11
I mean, if we go back a couple of years, the football club
00:03:11:11 - 00:03:15:01
was sending out any information figures to match days or incentives or schemes.
00:03:15:08 - 00:03:16:10
They were letters.
00:03:16:10 - 00:03:19:13
But, you know, the amount of paper that was going out was frightening.
00:03:19:20 - 00:03:22:05
All of the information now that's going out to our season ticket
00:03:22:05 - 00:03:25:06
holders, our club members, is all electronically,
00:03:25:11 - 00:03:29:20
it's all sent via emails and it's an, you know, we need to role model.
00:03:30:16 - 00:03:33:06
You know, I'll keep mentioning small steps, simplistic approaches.
00:03:33:06 - 00:03:36:03
We need to role model them to our communities, to our fan base.
00:03:36:08 - 00:03:38:13
So, you know, if we can do it, so can they.
00:03:38:17 - 00:03:39:23
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:03:41:07 - 00:03:44:00
Carbon is obviously at the forefront of many conversations.
00:03:44:00 - 00:03:46:04
You know, we've seen in sport and we've seen in football, that
00:03:46:10 - 00:03:49:19
the net zero game that was held at Tottenham,
00:03:49:19 - 00:03:52:13
you know, with Sky Sports
00:03:52:20 - 00:03:54:05
and there was a for me
00:03:54:05 - 00:03:57:15
there's an obvious intrinsic link between small the environment.
00:03:58:02 - 00:04:02:07
Certainly some of the aspects we've seen around biodiversity is as a prime example.
00:04:03:06 - 00:04:06:17
Well, action from your perspective I suppose as a sport taking to protect
00:04:07:01 - 00:04:10:23
and reduce carbon emissions when it comes to communities, community projects.
00:04:11:07 - 00:04:14:24
So again over the last six, 6 to 12 months
00:04:15:06 - 00:04:16:10
and there's a couple of initiatives
00:04:16:10 - 00:04:19:20
come out and I've being fully backed by the Premier League, by the EFL,
00:04:19:20 - 00:04:22:21
by the FA, Planet Super League is one of them.
00:04:22:21 - 00:04:24:20
Really, really good concept,
00:04:24:20 - 00:04:28:16
which is, you know, again, it's educating young children very much
00:04:28:16 - 00:04:34:13
about the impact of carbon emissions and how we can play a part in limiting it.
00:04:34:17 - 00:04:38:00
Lessoning it, lowering it, and the real simplistic fixes
00:04:38:00 - 00:04:43:13
and what they've done is in essence, they're turning a real serious topic
00:04:43:13 - 00:04:44:15
that's at the forefront of everyone's
00:04:44:15 - 00:04:47:06
minds at the moment around environmental sustainability
00:04:47:10 - 00:04:50:16
into an enjoyable learning opportunity for young people.
00:04:51:00 - 00:04:54:08
And what we're seeing is that these young people are taking part in,
00:04:54:24 - 00:04:56:20
you know, playing Super League they're going home.
00:04:56:20 - 00:04:58:11
They're talking to their parents about it.
00:04:58:11 - 00:04:59:21
They're challenging their parents.
00:04:59:21 - 00:05:03:03
6, 7 year old mum, dad, you've got to make sure the dishwasher is full.
00:05:03:14 - 00:05:05:05
You know, it's that kind of
00:05:06:08 - 00:05:06:24
situation.
00:05:06:24 - 00:05:08:23
I think the FA are just back again.
00:05:08:23 - 00:05:12:18
And another one which is aimed more for the everyday football fan
00:05:12:21 - 00:05:17:18
who goes to the stadiums, who goes and enjoys the games that they're backing.
00:05:18:03 - 00:05:21:03
The Football Support Association
00:05:21:03 - 00:05:25:08
Pledge Ball, which is very similar and they're calling on fans.
00:05:25:08 - 00:05:27:06
Right. You tell us what you're doing.
00:05:27:06 - 00:05:30:09
So as a Birmingham City fan, can you let us know what you are
00:05:30:09 - 00:05:34:03
doing to make a difference for, you know, surrounding carbon emissions?
00:05:34:09 - 00:05:38:02
And as they show and as they share they move up the league.
00:05:38:10 - 00:05:40:18
And let's be fair, every single football fan loves winning.
00:05:40:18 - 00:05:43:05
And that's and again, they're just two initiatives
00:05:43:05 - 00:05:45:11
that have come out at the moment are having such impact.
00:05:45:16 - 00:05:48:10
And I'm actually quite excited to see where they go in the next 12 months.
00:05:48:18 - 00:05:49:13
Agreed, I mean
00:05:50:19 - 00:05:52:18
they are two great points and I certainly echo to listeners
00:05:52:18 - 00:05:57:02
to take some time to understand Super Planet, Super League and Pledge Ball
00:05:57:24 - 00:05:58:23
particularly because, you know,
00:05:58:23 - 00:06:00:21
I'm sure we've got a lot football fans who will be listening.
00:06:00:21 - 00:06:03:19
Yes. And will probably want to stand where their teams are in those leagues.
00:06:03:19 - 00:06:05:02
And as you say, everyone wants to see their team
00:06:05:02 - 00:06:09:01
rise up the league, certainly not going the other direction
00:06:09:12 - 00:06:10:18
from a
00:06:11:03 - 00:06:14:03
I suppose how well it's publicised and how we communicate this
00:06:14:03 - 00:06:16:12
into the communities and to the fan base.
00:06:17:15 - 00:06:20:23
From your perspective, how publicised are those sport, sustainability,
00:06:20:23 - 00:06:23:22
local initiatives and what impacts are they are they having?
00:06:25:08 - 00:06:27:15
I think what we've got to be aware of
00:06:27:15 - 00:06:31:13
and we are very much as a community trustees, we've got two groups
00:06:31:13 - 00:06:32:16
that we need to really engage.
00:06:32:16 - 00:06:35:17
We've got our football fan base and we've got our local communities.
00:06:35:17 - 00:06:37:21
They don't always go hand-in-hand.
00:06:37:21 - 00:06:41:04
So the benefits in terms of the two initiatives I've just mentioned there,
00:06:41:09 - 00:06:42:14
which are endorsed fully,
00:06:43:20 - 00:06:45:23
are great because it's going out to our fan base.
00:06:45:23 - 00:06:48:12
But we then, we the community trust of the football club
00:06:48:15 - 00:06:50:24
have a responsibility to also make sure
00:06:51:06 - 00:06:54:22
we are providing information and updates that are relevant to our local communities
00:06:54:23 - 00:06:58:23
on our doorstep around the same, you know, agenda.
00:06:59:07 - 00:07:00:15
That's really, really key.
00:07:00:15 - 00:07:03:07
Okay.
00:07:03:07 - 00:07:05:07
And as part of that, I suppose, in terms of the impact,
00:07:06:00 - 00:07:09:02
what type of activities are are the Birmingham City
00:07:09:03 - 00:07:11:22
Community Trust doing, I suppose, in terms of making a difference
00:07:11:22 - 00:07:13:06
in those kind of footballing communities?
00:07:13:06 - 00:07:17:19
And how are you there for then, I suppose, bridging some of those gaps.
00:07:18:12 - 00:07:20:15
So we've been really, really fortunate this year
00:07:21:09 - 00:07:24:12
whereby we were doing a lot of work very closely with Veolia Birmingham.
00:07:24:23 - 00:07:28:21
And what we're saying is now we're going to utilise the knowledge
00:07:28:21 - 00:07:33:16
and expertise that we've been given from Veolia and take it into straightaway.
00:07:33:18 - 00:07:34:17
We are going to now
00:07:34:17 - 00:07:37:16
roll out a brand new education package to young children's schools.
00:07:38:02 - 00:07:40:01
So playing a part.
00:07:40:01 - 00:07:44:03
But what what we have made a pledge to in terms of long term environmental sustainability
00:07:44:03 - 00:07:46:20
as a as football clubs, community trust is very much role model
00:07:47:14 - 00:07:50:08
what can be done and how it can be done as well.
00:07:50:13 - 00:07:52:20
So a few initiatives that we've really took on board
00:07:52:20 - 00:07:55:23
now is that we're promoting the ride to work scheme for all of our employees.
00:07:57:00 - 00:07:58:15
We are now looking at providing
00:07:58:15 - 00:08:01:11
opportunities for all of our employees to look at electric car leases,
00:08:01:19 - 00:08:05:21
which is again being seen as a big benefit to them at the moment.
00:08:06:10 - 00:08:10:03
We know for all of our staff at the Trust we now commit two days
00:08:11:18 - 00:08:14:01
of their working
00:08:14:01 - 00:08:18:07
year, rather, to go and work on a project in the local community.
00:08:18:07 - 00:08:20:21
So absolutely, absolutely crucial.
00:08:20:21 - 00:08:24:23
And again, we see every opportunity we have to engage with and interact
00:08:24:24 - 00:08:27:04
with the communities is an opportunity to educate.
00:08:27:24 - 00:08:31:04
And we're not saying, we know everything it's an opportunity for us to learn
00:08:31:04 - 00:08:35:02
more as well and to further understand the barriers as to
00:08:35:02 - 00:08:39:24
why people may not be moving forwards with the long term sustainability.
00:08:40:05 - 00:08:41:22
Okay, fantastic.
00:08:41:22 - 00:08:44:03
How easy is the process? I mean, obviously
00:08:45:14 - 00:08:47:06
loads of clubs in the EFL,
00:08:47:06 - 00:08:50:20
a number of community trust that I'm sure you speak with on a regular basis.
00:08:52:06 - 00:08:53:03
What is that process?
00:08:53:03 - 00:08:55:14
How easy is that process from a, you know, a point of view
00:08:55:14 - 00:09:00:01
of sharing best practices between clubs, community trusts and where, I suppose,
00:09:00:01 - 00:09:03:12
where does the FA support that as well in terms of trying to accelerate,
00:09:03:12 - 00:09:06:02
are the key learnings or the sharing of those initiatives?
00:09:06:02 - 00:09:06:15
Yeah.
00:09:06:20 - 00:09:10:11
So in terms of where we're at as a community trust, so we are very fortunate.
00:09:10:11 - 00:09:12:13
Well, I am very fortunate whereby, you know,
00:09:12:13 - 00:09:15:01
I have a variety of communication with all the heads of communities
00:09:15:01 - 00:09:16:09
within all of the Midlands clubs.
00:09:16:09 - 00:09:19:03
So we are continuously looking at and sharing best practice
00:09:19:21 - 00:09:23:14
in terms of achieving our long term goals around environment sustainability
00:09:23:20 - 00:09:26:17
and and that can be through our WhatsApp groups
00:09:26:17 - 00:09:28:24
that can be through some emails that can be for when we meet up
00:09:29:13 - 00:09:31:14
every quarter of the season.
00:09:31:14 - 00:09:33:11
So that's really going well.
00:09:33:11 - 00:09:35:14
And we've taken some great ideas from the clubs
00:09:35:14 - 00:09:36:21
who are really pushing forward
00:09:36:21 - 00:09:40:08
as well with it as as we have shared, you know, we've shared with the clubs
00:09:40:08 - 00:09:44:01
like, you know, our volunteer recycling workforce that do before and after games.
00:09:44:13 - 00:09:47:05
So that's really, really good what we've now done as well.
00:09:47:05 - 00:09:50:20
There's now you know, now it's important and where we've seen the gap
00:09:50:20 - 00:09:53:02
and the need for further
work is very much right.
00:09:53:02 - 00:09:56:14
So we are doing this now on the ground within the communities.
00:09:56:18 - 00:09:59:13
We've now got to really build that bridge and make sure that
00:09:59:21 - 00:10:02:10
the information in the sharing is between community trust and club.
00:10:02:13 - 00:10:04:02
Sure. So how's that been done,
00:10:04:02 - 00:10:06:15
so there's now a Employment Sustainability Working Group,
00:10:06:18 - 00:10:08:10
which consists of key members
00:10:08:10 - 00:10:12:00
of the football club and key members of the Community Trust coming together.
00:10:13:17 - 00:10:14:15
And then again,
00:10:14:15 - 00:10:17:22
the plan is there that, you know, the way we what we want to be, we want to be seen
00:10:17:22 - 00:10:20:16
Birmingham City Football Club is doing the right things for the right reasons.
00:10:20:16 - 00:10:21:09
And hopefully that can be
00:10:21:09 - 00:10:25:03
a model of success because, you know, one of the things we are aware of whilst
00:10:25:03 - 00:10:25:14
I started
00:10:25:14 - 00:10:29:06
the conversation with the biggest concern for people in our communities is cost,
00:10:29:17 - 00:10:33:21
you know, around environmental sustainability long term.
00:10:33:21 - 00:10:38:02
At some point, if we really want to then start making the huge strides
00:10:38:02 - 00:10:41:14
we can, get the vehicle moving on the journey,
00:10:41:18 - 00:10:43:19
but then there will be costs and that's where we have to look
00:10:44:00 - 00:10:47:05
to the responsibilities of our parent clubs, of course, to see
00:10:47:05 - 00:10:48:14
as to where we can go with it.
00:10:48:14 - 00:10:49:20
And it's a really it's a really good point.
00:10:49:20 - 00:10:51:11
And I suppose, you know, without
00:10:52:21 - 00:10:55:19
asking something too controversial,
00:10:55:19 - 00:10:59:04
clearly, that's a massive conduit catalyst.
00:10:59:04 - 00:11:02:13
Because if the if the football club isn't aligned
00:11:02:13 - 00:11:05:19
with the community trust, then, you know, you're going to find obvious blockers.
00:11:05:19 - 00:11:07:19
You're going to find obvious challenges that make it difficult
00:11:07:20 - 00:11:11:16
to move some of those things forward.
00:11:11:16 - 00:11:13:24
Not going to mention any names,
00:11:13:24 - 00:11:18:02
but do you find that the appetite is there
00:11:18:10 - 00:11:21:21
when you speak to other community trust who are linked to the football clubs,
00:11:21:21 - 00:11:25:15
Are they saying the same thing, that actually, you know, the environmental
00:11:26:10 - 00:11:29:13
sustainability commitments that they're looking to make are actually helping
00:11:29:13 - 00:11:31:10
bring the community trust and the clubs together
00:11:31:10 - 00:11:34:24
because appreciate they do stand alone at times away from each other.
00:11:34:24 - 00:11:35:11
Yeah.
00:11:36:05 - 00:11:38:19
And as you've rightly just said there, there are some great initiatives
00:11:38:20 - 00:11:42:09
that are cost neutral that can absolutely
00:11:42:24 - 00:11:45:19
be put into play and delivered now.
00:11:45:19 - 00:11:47:22
But there will come a point, there will be a tipping point where,
00:11:48:06 - 00:11:48:19
you know,
00:11:48:19 - 00:11:50:12
there is going to need to be some investment,
00:11:50:12 - 00:11:52:17
there may need to be some projects that require funding.
00:11:52:17 - 00:11:56:10
And at that point, they're going to expect the football clubs to to support.
00:11:56:10 - 00:11:56:19
Yeah.
00:11:57:18 - 00:11:59:16
Is this relationship tight enough?
00:11:59:16 - 00:12:00:01
There is
00:12:00:01 - 00:12:00:24
is there an acceptance
00:12:00:24 - 00:12:04:01
and an appetite to say that, you know, we see that's what's coming in the roadmap
00:12:04:01 - 00:12:06:05
and we're ready for it? Or is it is there still work to do?
00:12:06:05 - 00:12:07:19
Yeah, no, I think that's what we're planning for.
00:12:07:19 - 00:12:08:11
Yeah. You know,
00:12:08:11 - 00:12:11:11
that is the agenda of our working group between trust and club.
00:12:12:02 - 00:12:12:23
We're very fortunate.
00:12:12:23 - 00:12:16:00
We've got some real forward thinking people on our senior management
00:12:16:04 - 00:12:17:06
at the club
00:12:17:16 - 00:12:21:15
who are very, very passionate about taking the club into the new ways,
00:12:21:17 - 00:12:24:02
surrounded by environmental sustainability.
00:12:24:09 - 00:12:25:21
So we're hoping that
00:12:25:21 - 00:12:29:01
when we get to that stage where we need to then start looking bigger picture
00:12:29:19 - 00:12:32:10
and we have role modled our behaviours and taking them
00:12:32:10 - 00:12:35:16
small steps across our communities, we will have that backing.
00:12:36:04 - 00:12:36:19
To move forward
00:12:38:00 - 00:12:38:22
really insightful Antony.
00:12:38:22 - 00:12:40:23
really appreciate your time
00:12:40:23 - 00:12:43:24
and your comments today
00:12:45:01 - 00:12:48:00
with everything that you've seen over the last 12 or 18 months of this journey,
00:12:48:00 - 00:12:50:15
certainly from the sustainability perspective of the trust,
00:12:51:00 - 00:12:53:21
if there was one sort of clear message or clear action
00:12:54:00 - 00:12:56:09
that you would leave people with, that will start them
00:12:57:24 - 00:13:00:22
on a journey to a to have an impact in this area.
00:13:00:22 - 00:13:01:20
What would it be?
00:13:02:04 - 00:13:05:02
I think very much we have to all be aware
00:13:05:10 - 00:13:08:13
that little steps by lots of people make a big difference.
00:13:09:03 - 00:13:13:02
And if we all get on board all the communities, the fan base as well,
00:13:13:02 - 00:13:15:18
we can make a big difference with those little steps.
00:13:16:02 - 00:13:17:07
Fantastic.
00:13:17:14 - 00:13:19:17
And I think, you know, it's
00:13:19:17 - 00:13:21:21
one of the things I see and I think one of the big things
00:13:22:13 - 00:13:26:03
that we absolutely as a sporting community needs to be better at,
00:13:26:07 - 00:13:29:13
and I think it absolutely aligns to what you've just said there in the fact that,
00:13:30:15 - 00:13:33:15
yes, it's fantastic when we see some of these net zero events taking place
00:13:33:15 - 00:13:38:09
now, it's not as easy for organisations or for clubs or for trusts
00:13:38:10 - 00:13:41:10
necessarily to go from a standing start into a complete net zero event.
00:13:41:13 - 00:13:44:16
Yet actually some of these initiatives in these these projects
00:13:44:16 - 00:13:47:16
that can be delivered now are moving people in those areas.
00:13:47:16 - 00:13:48:09
And even if it's something
00:13:48:09 - 00:13:51:04
as small as identifying, you know, an individual's carbon footprint
00:13:51:11 - 00:13:55:02
and what they can do to impact that, then it's
00:13:55:02 - 00:13:56:17
just another step in the right direction.
00:13:56:17 - 00:13:57:21
It's going to leverage that.
00:13:57:21 - 00:13:58:10
Absolutely.
00:13:58:10 - 00:14:00:17
And it's that mindset, that mentality.
00:14:00:24 - 00:14:02:22
Any step forward is better than no step at all.
00:14:02:22 - 00:14:04:03
Absolutely right.
00:14:04:03 - 00:14:06:00
Antony, thank you ever so much for today.
00:14:06:00 - 00:14:07:21
I really appreciate your time and your comments.
00:14:07:21 - 00:14:10:12
Hopefully, our listeners have certainly found that very insightful.
00:14:10:12 - 00:14:11:17
I know I have
00:14:11:19 - 00:14:15:13
and look forward to episode three in the very near future.
00:14:15:15 - 00:14:19:18
Thanks for listening.