How can district heating help us decarbonise?

District Heating Transcript

00:00:00:17 - 00:00:27:09
Speaker 1
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this latest edition of Ask the Expert. It's a LinkedIn Live. We're going live, so anything that happens can happen. And today I'm going to be joined by an expert in district heating. Jon Sanderson district heating maybe that's something you don't know what I'm talking about, but hopefully, within the next 20 minutes you will and you will become a fan of the idea.

00:00:27:22 - 00:00:55:02
Speaker 1
It's an idea we're going to have to get used to. The carbon impact of heating our homes, heating the businesses we work in, heating the places we visit for leisure and entertainment. He's it's one of the biggest issues we have to tackle. So finding ways to heat these areas, cool these areas in other parts of the world, maybe, and cool these areas for that one week of the year when we get that ridiculous heat wave is really important.

00:00:55:14 - 00:01:24:09
Speaker 1
But let's focus on heating now. Heating the buildings and learning about the vital role that district heating, complying, decarbonisation. Currently, only 2% of the UK's heat comes from district heating. If you were in the Northern Europe or in other parts of the world, that number would be considered tiny, ridiculous. Elsewhere, district heating is something that is considered the norm.

00:01:25:19 - 00:01:56:06
Speaker 1
Recently, Veolia employed YouGov to do a survey to find out just exactly what people were thinking about district heating. And the first thing we found out was that over 70% of people didn't know what district heating was more concerning even after that had been explained to them what district heating was around 20% of people. Only around 20% of people said they would consider living in a property that had district heating.

00:01:56:22 - 00:02:15:11
Speaker 1
There is work to be done and hopefully in this episode of Ask the Expert, we can start to take that on. Jon, I'm going to come to you in a moment for you to have your moment on screen and explain to us all about District heating. Jon, are you there?

00:02:16:03 - 00:02:17:06
Speaker 2
Hi. Good morning, Martyn.

00:02:18:06 - 00:02:24:24
Speaker 1
Morning, Jon. You're looking very well. And I'm enjoying that logo behind you. What a great logo that is.

00:02:25:16 - 00:02:26:02
Speaker 2
It says.

00:02:26:22 - 00:02:30:24
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Jon. You've not been here long, have you know?

00:02:30:24 - 00:02:47:19
Speaker 2
So this is a new start. First of all, you know, a little bit cautious about expert. I am just a normal person, extremely passionate about district heating as part of the answer for net zero. So yeah, not let's not say I'm an expert.

00:02:49:05 - 00:03:07:07
Speaker 1
I'll take passion and enthusiasm over knowing what you're doing any day and maybe not in all situations. But certainly, Jon, we've got a chance to have a couple of conversations since she joined me earlier and that you're underselling yourself, that my friend, you are an expert in this. So do you want to tell us a little bit about Jon Sanderson?

00:03:08:08 - 00:03:40:14
Speaker 2
Sure. So I've worked in energy for well over a decade, and I'm probably a true story around decarbonization. I come from an oil and gas background and I just have a huge passion drive to help the decarbonization of the UK. So I myself have diversified and hence why I find myself in district heating. And I'm really excited about telling you a bit more about district heating and trying to answer some of those questions you addressed a moment ago.

00:03:40:15 - 00:04:01:08
Speaker 2
And actually today is a really important day for me personally because today is the first time I've got my heating on at home. It's the 3rd of November. It's been very mild, had that feeling of emotion this morning, you know, turning the boiler on. And I think it's a topic that we're all, you know, talking about and we're all concerned about.

00:04:01:09 - 00:04:06:18
Speaker 2
I'm feeling the pinch just like everybody else. So today, very topical, the heat.

00:04:06:18 - 00:04:12:08
Speaker 1
It certainly is. Let's is it like Groundhog Day now, the first official day of autumn, Jon has put his heating on.

00:04:12:24 - 00:04:14:00
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly.

00:04:15:21 - 00:04:41:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm still breaking out extra layers of jumpers. Jon 87. It's great to have this opportunity for us to talk, have a conversation and other people to join. So I'm going to start asking a few questions. I know very little. And what I do know, I often forget or confuse. So please go slowly. Please give me examples and let's see where we end up on.

00:04:41:07 - 00:05:02:11
Speaker 1
The first question I want to ask you is for those people listening and watching now live, they might not be fully aware. There may be, you know, 6 minutes into this link to life and they're still wondering what's the district heating network, district heating scheme, what is itl and how does it work and why? Jon help.

00:05:03:09 - 00:05:30:06
Speaker 2
Right. Well, let's break it down into two sections. Let's first of all, talk about what a district heating network is, why we have district heating. So why do we have this heating? Well, I've kind of spoken about decarbonization already, Martyn. He's a is a fact. Heat is responsible for a third of its 37% of all UK carbon emissions.

00:05:31:01 - 00:06:03:01
Speaker 2
Let's just consume that for a moment. A third of all carbon emissions. So heat is a huge topic to be addressing and district heating is well supported as one of the major answers to bringing down those carbon emissions. And for that reason, the UK Government, believe it or not, has invested well in excess of half a billion pounds to help the implementation of district heating networks here in the UK.

00:06:03:01 - 00:06:33:06
Speaker 2
You've already spoken about how our EU cousins already have the streets and it's part of the normal day when you buy a home in the EU. Let's say Sweden, Norway, Germany it's typically very normal that they would connect to a district heating network, but here in England, for reasons that we all don't really understand at the moment, it hasn't been a big part of heating homes up until now.

00:06:33:15 - 00:06:53:15
Speaker 2
And you're right, so district heating in the UK only accounts for 2% of all heating homes here at the moment. The plan is that we will grow that in excess of 20% by 2030. So it's a big thing. So yeah, what is a district heating network that was a part of your question? MARTYN So let's address that one.

00:06:55:10 - 00:07:23:01
Speaker 2
You know what? There's been something really missing for me since we've got social media and the COVID pandemic, we've lost a sense of community. So I'm going to break it down really, really simply. District heating is a community heating system. So typically what we have in our homes at the moment are individual gas boilers that provide heat.

00:07:23:10 - 00:07:47:05
Speaker 2
Just like most people on this call. Well, with this heat and it's different. So there is a central energy centre, a community heating centre that then shares the hope, the heat by hot water pipes, which are generally underground insulated pipes. So the heat is distributed through a heat network to all the homes, and they share that central point.

00:07:47:05 - 00:08:13:21
Speaker 2
The benefit above is that there's a significant cost saving, but it's a very low carbon solution rather than every single home burning gas individually. So it's all about scale, it's about community and district heating is typically the lowest cost solution for the end user and the lowest carbon solution. So it really makes sense.

00:08:13:21 - 00:08:36:00
Speaker 1
MARTYN Again, for somebody who doesn't claim to be an expert, you hit me in the face with an awful lot of facts and numbers and figures there. So I want you to shock me. They're 2% of the heat in the UK, both but 37% of the carbon. Yes, right. This is a no brainer and we have to do something about this, I believe.

00:08:36:00 - 00:09:05:04
Speaker 1
I'm kind of stunned. I like your analogy. It's a community. That gets me. So there's instead of having an individual box in your house that is your source of heat, there's one source of heat for lots around them. Does that mean that I can't decide how hot my room is? Does that mean I have to have my room on an 80 to 23 degrees or 18 degrees?

00:09:05:12 - 00:09:06:18
Speaker 1
Do I have any control?

00:09:07:13 - 00:09:29:04
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So just like you control your home via the thermostat, now you can get some exceptional technologies to even have a room-by-room temperature setting, and you can get the latest apps to be able to control it. You can even predict the weather ahead of when it happens to ensure that you present the best conditions in your home.

00:09:29:04 - 00:09:39:09
Speaker 2
So this is really exciting technology that can combine with district heating to have the most efficient and the best form of heating a home.

00:09:40:17 - 00:10:04:17
Speaker 1
Fabulous. So yeah, it's yeah. It's one of those stories, isn't it, that when you hear you. Well why is it not that anyway? Why, why? Why am I doing it this way when that way seems to be so much more efficient and effective? So we're talking about these benefits, though. So, you know, let's go into that. There must be more benefits for residents and businesses, especially for the parts of the world.

00:10:04:17 - 00:10:15:08
Speaker 1
Use this system. Why are they using it compared to ourselves? You know, what are the benefits of being connected to a district heating network?

00:10:15:08 - 00:10:42:03
Speaker 2
I think first and foremost, the carbon reduction is just crazy. So I walked down the street everyday and I was walking past some houses. And you can see you see the, you know, the steam, the emissions coming out of everyone's individual gas boiler. How is that all today when we're trying to drive down emissions, we're trying to get to that zero.

00:10:42:03 - 00:11:11:05
Speaker 2
We tried to clean the air for the future. It's just wrong. So carbon reduction, first and foremost, it's the right thing to do. And, you know, community heating, just the word community is something very passionate to me. It's something we're really missing at the moment. So yeah, obviously we've spoken about me put my heating on this morning. I'm feeling a bit emotional that there is a cost saving to also be had by sharing that asset.

00:11:12:08 - 00:11:35:22
Speaker 2
It's very possible, especially now with the cost of gas prices, that the end user will benefit from a significant cost saving as well from district heating. And I would expect that to only become more and more important as we continue to see the cost of fossil fuels to increase. So that's really important, but it's about doing the right thing.

00:11:36:19 - 00:12:00:18
Speaker 2
I think that's the key message I want to get across. And as the public become more aware of the heat and as we get more district heating schemes up and running, there's a benefit with the increase of scale. It will only get better and better. And there is one more thing as well. We're talking about heating, but district heating should also be considered as district cooling.

00:12:01:02 - 00:12:19:23
Speaker 2
So there's an opportunity to do heating and cooling. And you mentioned some of the hot weather we've had this year, Martyn. I would have really loved to have had some cooling. And with the cost of that, with the increased heat that we're experiencing, that could be a really nice function as well. So heating and cooling is possible.

00:12:20:18 - 00:12:53:22
Speaker 1
It's it's the future. I'm almost sold on the idea, although I live in a village that doesn't even have gas piped to it, which always gives me good phone when somebody comes around and tries to sell me gas boilers. But you need a hobby. My hobby is picking on people who try to sell me things, just wanting to know, you know, in terms of carbon, because what is the reduction in carbon footprint then based against a UK building?

00:12:54:03 - 00:12:55:21
Speaker 1
Is there a number you can tell me?

00:12:57:11 - 00:13:24:00
Speaker 2
It's a really good question and it's very difficult to answer, to be honest. Martyn Because when we look to implement district heating or cooling, there is no kind of silver bullet answer. You know, there is not one single technology is the right answer. So the answer to that question would really be dependent on the technology that we implement. So, yeah, I can't give you a number.

00:13:24:12 - 00:13:35:01
Speaker 2
All I can tell you is it would be a significant carbon benefit rather than burning fossil fuels that dinosaurs, it's just no longer acceptable.

00:13:36:17 - 00:13:59:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Only those liquid dinosaur is allowed. Mr. Rees-Mogg, I thank you very much. And I just continue to understand that, you know, and I think you mentioned earlier that how this is part of government strategy, isn't it, to get more districts to you know, I think. Did you say that the intention is to go from 2% to 20%?

00:13:59:12 - 00:14:01:08
Speaker 1
That's correct. Yes. What was your timeline?

00:14:01:08 - 00:14:16:03
Speaker 2
Is that so over the next 7 to 10 years? So at the moment, we're at 2% for heat networks here in the UK. By 2030, we expect to meet that 20%, which is, you know, that's that's that's ambitious.

00:14:16:16 - 00:14:25:11
Speaker 1
It's yeah, I guess it's driven by legislation. And there must be something saying if you're building a house or build any building in this area. Is that of something that we're hearing?

00:14:25:24 - 00:14:49:22
Speaker 2
That's correct. So there are a number of regulations that are coming out. So Housebuilders at the moment have a new regulation to deal with. It's called the Future Home Standards, and that means that new homes that are built are no longer able to be supported by individual gas boilers. So the Government are helping with the regular with the regulations.

00:14:50:04 - 00:15:15:14
Speaker 2
We also have something called district heating zoning, which means that in parts of the country where the zones exist, there is a mandatory requirement to connect district heating, where it's where it's there. So the government are really pushing this heavily with their agenda because we've seen the benefits of this heating from our EU counterparts that they already know the true benefits to these schemes.

00:15:16:14 - 00:15:38:13
Speaker 1
Fabulous. We've got some questions already coming in, which is good for me because I get to tease you and you now know that I'm going to ask you a question from our audience. So please, anybody watching live, you can add a question and we will try to find the time to answer it in this in this session.

00:15:38:13 - 00:16:01:09
Speaker 1
If not, we'll answer it later on in the comments. And in addition, anything we're referencing, you don't have to worry about making notes. We will put links to details and content and other information in the comments after we finish the event. I got one thought that springs to mind. It came from the same place. This will kind of control the temperature, I guess.

00:16:02:19 - 00:16:25:11
Speaker 1
What happens if it's one big boiler in a hundred houses, 200 houses, properties? What happens if that boiler breaks and I don't have any hot water to wash my face in the morning? It's you know, I'm not in control, am I? And my neighbours, I can't even get around the next door and say, can I have a shower?

00:16:25:11 - 00:16:32:19
Speaker 1
What a strange world that would be. But anyway, what happens? How resilient are district heating schemes?

00:16:33:18 - 00:16:41:10
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah, good, good question. Have you ever had a boiler breakdown? Martyn, can I ask you a question?

00:16:41:20 - 00:16:45:14
Speaker 1
I have also gone round to my neighbour and said, I've got a big meeting today. Can I use your shower?

00:16:45:24 - 00:17:06:20
Speaker 2
But it's slightly embarrassing. Okay. So I also have had my boiler break down and it's the work is one of the worst things in the world. We don't realize how important that hot water really is to us. It's particularly uncomfortable. So again, there is a fair of a benefit to district heating because we don't have a single source.

00:17:06:20 - 00:17:32:13
Speaker 2
So the energy centre, whilst not provides the majority of the heat supply, we always have a backup energy centre. So if there were to be a breakdown, God forbid, because it happens, or if we need to do some maintenance on the equipment, we would have a backup energy centre. So a secondary source that we could switch on to ensure that we keep the heat going to the homes.

00:17:33:02 - 00:17:57:02
Speaker 2
Now, you don't have a backup in your home when your boiler goes up. You know, you might have to borrow the capsule and have a bath, but it's if you're lucky enough to have a bath. But so this is a much more effective system. You've got much more resilience that you wouldn't have on a standard system. So I would say we should feel more comfortable with the heating than the traditional gas boiler.

00:17:58:15 - 00:18:16:23
Speaker 2
And the other thing is we don't have to worry about that box on the wall, as you describe the earlier that gas boiler is your problem. If it breaks down, it's your problem. You have to pay to maintain it, etc., etc.. But also, it's not the safest thing to have in the world if you've got gas going to the boiler.

00:18:17:10 - 00:18:32:14
Speaker 2
So district heating takes away some of those concerns. You've got comfort that it's not your problem. It would be the district heating operator's responsibility to ensure that you've got heat consistently come into your home. As long as you question.

00:18:34:21 - 00:18:58:11
Speaker 1
Jon, it answers my question. I'm beginning to warm to why I'm living where I'm living. I think there's a house move going on. Do you think the economy is right for that? Absolutely. Absolutely not. I love the idea of the boiling the kettle through a wash that would just add to make me a little bit less popular than I am, which is hard to make me more unpopular.

00:18:59:10 - 00:19:20:01
Speaker 1
You know, that's what my granddad would have referred to as a Lancashire, Wash. If you want the kettle to wash your face. Sorry, it's Veolia is involved in these things. That's why we're having this conversation. That's why I've come to you because you're the expert. And can you tell me a little bit more about Veolia then district heating?

00:19:20:01 - 00:19:45:03
Speaker 1
Because many people associate our brand with different services that we provide. So Veolia clearly cares about the environment. Evidently, Claire cares about decarbonization, but what does that translate to in the UK? What is Veolia in district heating in the UK?

00:19:45:03 - 00:20:10:02
Speaker 2
Well, that's the reason I'm here. So I think Veolia is fantastically positioned to help deliver some of the district heating agenda, 2 to 20%. What people on the call will not be aware of is Veolia are one of the largest operators in district heating. We actually have over 60 heat networks already existent, which is a huge number.

00:20:11:07 - 00:20:45:22
Speaker 2
And so, for instance, we serve 30 hospital sites, 64 industrial sites. And, you know, we actually have our own call centre operations. We have our own maintenance teams, we have our designers in-house. We've got basically everything you need to deliver district heating networks at scale and really efficient. Latest Standard one. So I'm really excited about that challenge we have actually.

00:20:46:02 - 00:21:11:07
Speaker 2
But you are not his neighbour because you said facts and figures. You like those markets and we've got over 8000 kilometres of 8000 kilometres. Yeah, that's correct. Which is a staggering number. So but we've not been very good about talking about this, about letting the world know this is a relatively new area for us to concentrate on. So most of our heat networks that we've done are from our own Veolia assets.

00:21:11:19 - 00:21:52:17
Speaker 2
But what we're going to do is something slightly different. Where we're going to approach the market with what we've decided is called the deep boom offering, which is to design, build, own, operate and maintain the network. So the full offering, full turnkey solutions, which I'm really excited about, that's the reason I'm here. It's an exciting area and to begin this, we also have a fantastic opportunity, something unique to Veolia, to develop heat networks from our own operations, our own assets.

00:21:52:23 - 00:22:12:18
Speaker 2
So as you know, imagine we own energy from waste plants. We have water treatment works that they're the perfect opportunity to develop heat networks from those assets into Vikings homes. And I'm really excited about the possibilities that we can we can deal with this.

00:22:12:18 - 00:22:37:09
Speaker 1
It fits so well with our ecological transformation and changing that heat system from being just 2% to higher to reducing that carbon footprint from 37%. It really fits. It's a Veolia solution. And I agree with you. It's a very exciting place to be. I've got one more question and a few questions from the people who are watching it.

00:22:38:16 - 00:22:55:19
Speaker 1
My final question is, okay, this is where we are. And you just talked about the next step for Veolia, but what about district heating in the UK? What's the next steps for connecting people and businesses to district heating networks? How is that going to happen?

00:22:55:19 - 00:23:15:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I don't think there's been a better time to be talking about district heating. I think we're all being affected by the cost of living at the moment, the cost of electricity, the cost of gas. So I think now is really the time to be talking to about district heating. And I think that alone perhaps is the stimulus.

00:23:15:09 - 00:23:45:13
Speaker 2
We need to really drive this message home. We've talked about how the government heavily supporting with grant funding, and I think that's fantastic. We've introduced the zoning, we spoke about the zoning. I think that mandatory connection to district heating networks, that's another really positive step in the right direction. We've spoken about the future home standards and how that will ensure that new homes are built to a much better standard.

00:23:45:13 - 00:24:15:21
Speaker 2
And where possible, they connected to district heating. I think the key thing here, though, is public perception. So, Martyn, you spoke about how people don't know about the heat and it's still a bit of an identity. I think that we all need to come together. And this is where Veolia a really helping to try and, you know, increase the public awareness to allow people to understand the benefits to district heating, to get more support for them.

00:24:15:24 - 00:24:50:04
Speaker 2
So there's huge potential for the there is still one of one thing we do find difficult is to retrofit district heating because of laying the pipes in the ground so that, you know, that's something we still need to get over as a district heating industry and look at how we can do that in the most effective way. I spoke about how we shouldn't forget about cooling as well, but there's some really exciting technologies coming forward as well.

00:24:50:07 - 00:25:09:05
Speaker 2
So just really briefly, there's an opportunity to use heat from mine water. So we all know in the UK the old coal mines used to supply jobs to pretty much everybody in the UK. But those old mine shafts, this is really cold mountain and.

00:25:10:02 - 00:25:11:24
Speaker 1
The geologist has woken up. Hello.

00:25:13:10 - 00:25:41:22
Speaker 2
So the mine shafts that are in the ground there now full of water and that water, believe it or not, is being warmed up by the Earth's core. And those water temperatures are typically 15, 16 degrees. So without getting too boring, we can use the existing hot water or warm that water to bring it back to the surface and then put it through a technology to heat it up, to provide it as the heating.

00:25:42:04 - 00:26:07:11
Speaker 2
And what's more, those old mineshafts are underneath loads of new housing developments. So it's just a really exciting story how those old coal mines that used to provide employment all those years ago could now provide homes to the communities that were built above them. So it's a really nice story. And then there's the solar thermal. That's a very exciting technology.

00:26:07:20 - 00:26:31:24
Speaker 2
We've got a data centre recovered heat. So everybody knows we have we have data centres being built across the UK. They have a lot of excess heat that they need to get rid of. And at the same time, we've got a lot of new developments going on where data is being built so we can recover that heat. And then there are really exciting technologies such as vertical farming that can use the heat as well.

00:26:31:24 - 00:26:53:02
Speaker 2
So not just we shouldn't just think about district heating as heating homes, but it could be used in agriculture as well. And if you know, you know that we're now getting to the point where these opportunities are being realized, the government is supporting them from a political point of view. This could be a really exciting story in the UK.

00:26:54:00 - 00:27:22:03
Speaker 1
I love it. I've got that stupid grin on my face and I just absolutely I'm in love with those ideas. I think that the water from the mines, again, I mean, it's such a such a fabulous reuse and in very much a Veolia style of approach to achieving this, nothing is going to waste. And we use the resources appropriately and we protect resource and give access to those resources.

00:27:22:03 - 00:27:45:03
Speaker 1
You could only imagine what anybody looking in would say. You know, you build these houses over this source of heat and then you ignored that heat and pumped in liquid and gases. Dead dinosaur and a third geologist out there. I know I'm out like several epochs when I do that reference. A couple of questions from people who've joined in and one of those is linked to that.

00:27:45:03 - 00:28:08:10
Speaker 1
So we're looking there at future and I guess or near-term sources for the power, the fuel. But you know, what is the main source of power right now for district heating? And you know, how does that go forward? Is that is the plan to gain more from waste treatment perhaps so actually.

00:28:08:10 - 00:28:34:08
Speaker 2
So Veolia here Veolia like I said, we are looking first and foremost to develop large scale heat networks for my own assets. I think there's a very exciting technology around heat pumps. So heat pumps is one of the key technologies being employed in the industry at the moment of how we can use things like sewage heat, so recovered sewage heat to provide heat to the homes.

00:28:34:17 - 00:28:51:08
Speaker 2
So if we have a water treatment works, there is the opportunity to use that recovered heat as part of a district heating system and employ a heat pump technology to boost up those temperatures. So yeah, that's another really exciting story I think.

00:28:51:08 - 00:29:10:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, I guess, you know, every degree closer to the temperature you want is a degree you don't have to achieve through fear, through a fuel, isn't it? So, you know, if you're taking a water a we had one of these sessions with Danny Adelman and Heather Foster a few months ago about heat pumps. And that was the way I took away from night.

00:29:10:11 - 00:29:35:06
Speaker 1
It's not about raising it from 0 to 20, it's about raising it from 18 to 20. And that's far more efficient and possible. And, you know, I also we could take it up to 80 degrees, which I think is it just incredible technology. And second question now, you touched on it, but I'm going to going to come back to it, and that's about district heating as a community level is extremely and very interesting.

00:29:35:22 - 00:29:45:08
Speaker 1
But is it a concept that could be easily retrofitted? You said it was a problem to do the retrofit, but it's not. Are you saying it's a problem or he's saying it's impossible? What are you saying?

00:29:46:09 - 00:30:19:08
Speaker 2
I'm saying it's quite possible. However, we need to consider any disturbance that we need to make to lay the pipes into the ground. And typically where we look at a retrofit project, it's a very urbanized environment. It's not ideal to be thinking of roads and pavements to light the pipes. So that's typically why we're looking at what I like to refer to as the low hanging fruit, which is where new homes being built or new industry should be connected to district heating networks, first and foremost.

00:30:19:20 - 00:30:36:15
Speaker 2
But I expect as time progresses and whilst the Government change some of their grant funding sources to support retrofit activity, that will become more and more important and we'll see more people take up district heating on a retrofit basis.

00:30:37:10 - 00:31:02:17
Speaker 1
Excellent. Thank you for that answer. Two more questions, if I can, Jon, if you are out of time, can I can I borrow you for two more questions worth of time? Absolutely fabulous. This one's a probably, I guess, our terminology. And it's a great really good question, actually. Do you think the district heating could correct could be correct only for domestic hot water and not for heating, or it should be including both.

00:31:02:17 - 00:31:11:05
Speaker 1
That's heating and hot water. What are we saying here? Is it just hot water or is it just heating or is it hot water and heating?

00:31:12:07 - 00:31:17:13
Speaker 2
It can provide both sides. Yes, absolutely. So we can be both.

00:31:18:15 - 00:31:33:20
Speaker 1
Excellent. Thank you for that. That's clear. Zero eight. So, yeah, maybe my line of questioning was a little confusing, so I'm going to take that on my shoulders. Final question. What is the role of local authorities in implementing district heating?

00:31:34:13 - 00:32:04:07
Speaker 2
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, really good one. So local authorities are absolutely not only are they carrying the messages from our national government, but they are the key holders to the local policy, to the local implementation and that very much adopters supporters of district heating. So I personally work quite closely with local authorities and they have many champions.

00:32:04:08 - 00:32:30:20
Speaker 2
They have really, really great champions who are driving this district heating policy forward. So absolutely critical. And, you know, we have the idea already. I'm really in and seeing what local authorities are trying to achieve because we care so much about the environment, on the implementation of the streets. And we very much see the key to this is working closely with local authorities.

00:32:32:05 - 00:32:58:14
Speaker 1
Thank you, Jon, for a fabulous answer. Thank you for your time today. I've really enjoyed spending what's been 35 minutes with an expert. I think you can officially use that epithet now. You are the expert on disappointing and hopefully I'm not the only person who feels that. And I'm sure there are many more who are a little more enlightened about the benefits of district heating schemes.

00:32:58:14 - 00:33:21:02
Speaker 1
Thank you, Jon. And thank you to all of you watching and asking your questions. It's been our pleasure to bring this session to you. And I'd like to invite you to tune in for our next episode of Ask the Expert. What I'm going to be joined by Julien and Benoit. Julien and Benoit will be talking to me about plus the be view.

00:33:21:03 - 00:33:49:17
Speaker 1
Viola is new recycled plastic offering. And if you want to know when the session is going to be aired, please follow Veolia UK on LinkedIn. You can also listen back to all episodes of Ask the Expert by visiting our new podcast hub. Visit Veolia, Echo Dot, UK, Forward Slash Podcast, Hyphen Hope and you can go back and reflect and learn all of the materials we've done and covered so far this year.

00:33:50:11 - 00:33:53:19
Speaker 1
Thank you very much for your time, everyone. Thank you, Jon. We'll see you soon.